Preliminary Hearing of The Billy Wright Inquiry

Hearing: 22nd June 2005

1 22nd June 2005
2 PRELIMINARY HEARING OF THE BILLY WRIGHT INQUIRY
3
4 OPENING STATEMENT BY CHAIRMAN
5 OF THE INQUIRY LORD MACLEAN
6
7 LORD MACLEAN: Well good morning ladies and gentlemen. I want to
8 make with my colleagues on either side of me, an Opening
9 Statement. I will then ask for applications for
10 representation in addition to those who have already been
11 granted representation and then finally I will take
12 questions from the floor because I assume there will be
13 questions.
14 I am Lord MacLean and I am the Chairman of this
15 Inquiry. I am a member of the Faculty of Advocates and
16 practiced at the Scots Bar from 1964 to 1990. I took silk in
17 1977. From 1990 until my retirement this year I was a High
18 Court Judge in Scotland and latterly an Appellate Judge in
19 Scotland.
20 I will be assisted in this Inquiry by two panel
21 members. The first member on my right Professor Andrew
22 Coyle who has, since 1997, been the Director of the
23 International Centre for Prison Studies at King's College
24 University, London. Having previously held a number of
25 positions in the Scottish Prison Service and the Prison
26 Service of England and Wales.
27 Professor Coyle was a specialist adviser for the
28 Northern Ireland Affairs Committee between 2000 and 2001 on
29 prison issues and he served as Governor of four prisons,
30 Brixton, Shotts, Peterhead and Greenock.
 
1 On my left it is Right Reverend John Oliver who was
2 Bishop of Hereford from 1992 to 2003. In that capacity
3 he chaired both the Advisory Board of Ministry and local
4 Unity Committee and was the Anglican representative in
5 ecumenical delegation who travelled to meet faith community
6 leaders in the former Yugoslavia during the Balkan conflict.
7 Before that he served as Archdeacon of Sherborne, Team
8 Rector of the parishes of Central Exeter and of South Molton
9 Group of Parishes in Devon as well as serving as Chaplain
10 and Assistant Master of Eton.
11 I am confident that their combined experience and
12 expertise will afford me invaluable support in resolving the
13 issues that will arise in this Inquiry.
14 I can be sure that they will provide the Inquiry with
15 independent and objective views on the evidence we will
16 hear.
17 The Inquiry panel is supported by three Counsel from
18 the Scottish Bar, Mr Derek Batchelor QC, and two junior
19 Counsel, Doctor Eugene Creally and Murdo Macleod, advocates.
20 The Inquiry Solicitor is Mr Henry Palin who was, until he
21 took up this post, Solicitor to the Shipman Inquiry, the
22 Deputy Solicitor is Pauline Henderson and Inquiry Secretary
23 Mrs Oonagh McIntosh. They work from the Inquiry Office in
24 Edinburgh, details of wish are contained on the Inquiry
25 website.
26 Today's meeting is a preliminary hearing of the Billy
27 Wright Inquiry held to inform interested parties and public
28 of our remit, progress to date and the issues we shall be
29 considering, and to receive and consider applications for
30 representation at the Inquiry.
 
1 I will deal with that particular matter in due course
2 this morning as I have already indicated.
3 If I can turn to the purpose of this Inquiry: On 27th
4 December 1997 whilst a prisoner in her Majesty's Prison, The
5 Maze, William Stephen, known as Billy, Wright, a member of
6 the Loyalist Volunteer Force, was shot and killed in a
7 prison van then positioned in the forecourt of H Block 6 by
8 Christopher Williams, John Kennaway and John Glennon, all
9 then members of the Irish National Liberation Army who were
10 imprisoned in the same block in The Maze.
11 After the death of Billy Wright, a number of
12 investigations into the circumstances leading up to and
13 surrounding his murder were carried out. The Royal Ulster
14 Constabulary investigated the murder and on 21st October
15 1998 McWilliams, Kennaway and Glennon were convicted and
16 sentenced to life imprisonment.
17 They were subsequently liberated under the early
18 release scheme entered into the under the Good Friday
19 Agreement.
20 Mr Martin Narey, who was investigating the escape of a
21 prisoner from the Maze in December 1997 was asked by the
22 Secretary of State for Northern Ireland to expand his
23 Inquiry to consider aspects of this homocide. The prison
24 authorities carried out their own internal Inquiry on 22nd
25 February 1998. A Coroner's Inquest commenced in terms of
26 the Prison Act [Northern Ireland] 1953.
27 Subsequent to these investigations the Honourable
28 Justice Peter Cory, a retired Canadian Judge, was asked by
29 the British Government to review all of the available
30 documentation and consider whether there was a prima facie
 
1 case for further Inquiry. He concluded that there was such a
2 case and in November 2004 the then Secretary of State, the
3 Right Honourable Mr Paul Murphy MP, established this
4 Inquiry.
5 The family of Billy Wright are present at the hearing
6 today. The Inquiry Solicitor and Secretary have met with
7 Mr David Wright. Because this is, and must at all times be
8 seen to be, an independent Inquiry, I have not personally met
9 with Mr Wright. We are conscious in this Inquiry both of
10 the public nature of our work and of the fact that we will
11 be hearing evidence which will revive painful memories for
12 Mr David Wright and for other members of his family. All
13 parties, I'm sure, will deal with the evidence we will hear
14 during the proceedings with sensitivity.
15 The Terms of Reference set for this Inquiry are wide in
16 expression. They are clearly intended to cover more than
17 simply the events of the 27th December 1997, and one can
18 readily assume must be designed to address the issue of
19 collusion which caused Judge Cory's concern.
20 We have prepared a draft list of issues for
21 consideration by the Inquiry. That list seeks to indicate
22 the general areas which we consider the Inquiry should
23 address. That has been made available to interested parties
24 and some comments already have been received. Any other
25 comments should be submitted to the Inquiry Office by 15th
26 July this year. 15th July. Any lines of further inquiry
27 which are suggested will be duly considered by the panel.
28 Now I turn to deal with an issue which I think has
29 concerned some, especially within Northern Ireland, and that
30 is conversion to the Inquiries Act.
 
1 The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, the Right
2 Honourable Mr Peter Hain MP, has confirmed that it is for
3 the panel to interpret the Terms of Reference of the
4 Inquiry. In my view, although there is no strict legal
5 obligation on the Inquiry to do so, this Inquiry should seek
6 to satisfy the procedural requirements implicit in Article 2
7 of the European Convention of Human Rights.
8 Consequently I propose to ask the Secretary of State to
9 convert this Inquiry to one held under the Inquiries Act
10 2005. In those circumstances I think that it is appropriate
11 that I should say something today about that process of
12 conversion.
13 This Inquiry was initially set up under the Prison Act
14 [Northern Ireland] 1953 which relates generally to matters
15 arising in relation to a prison. In respect of the death of
16 a prisoner in custody, that Act calls for a Coroner's
17 Inquest and one of course was held in this case.
18 We are, however, to consider matters other than those
19 arising solely in relation to a prison. We are to inquire
20 into the conduct, not only of the prison authorities, but
21 also of other State agencies which did not normally have any
22 jurisdiction in respect of prison matters. We are asked to
23 consider, for example, what knowledge and information, if
24 any, was held by State agencies outwith the prison setting
25 an unrelated to prison administration.
26 Both in its investigatory role and at the public
27 hearing stage, an Inquiry must act within the confines of
28 its authority. That authority emanates from the legislation
29 which allows the Inquiry to be established. In my view the
30 Inquiries Act 2005 provides a clearer basis on which this
 
1 Inquiry can proceed.
2 Further, I consider that the Act provides a better and
3 clearer framework in which to conduct both our
4 investigations and the public hearings.
5 We recognise that, in the course of our work, the Inquiry
6 may seek to recover or discover, evidence which is of a
7 sensitive nature and in respect of which the holder of the
8 information or any person referred to in it, may have
9 concerns about the extent to which it maybe publicly
10 disseminated.
11 Since this is an independent Public Inquiry set up by a
12 Government Minister to inquire into the conduct of agencies
13 of the State, I would hope and expect that there will be
14 full disclosure of all relevant and material evidence from
15 those agencies which hold it or have access to it.
16 The presumption must be that public access in such an
17 important matter as this should not be restricted access.
18 More importantly, however, it is of paramount importance
19 that the Inquiry itself has full and unfettered access to
20 all material and evidence that might be relevant to its
21 function. It is fully appreciated that there may well be
22 situations where, as a matter of public policy, extended
23 disclosure beyond the Inquiry should not be made, at least
24 not without appropriate redaction of sensitive material.
25 This Inquiry will act fully independently of
26 Government. Issues of public interest immunity for
27 documentation or in relation to witnesses may require to be
28 resolved in public proceedings before a Court. Equally, any
29 exercise by Government of powers seeking to restrict public
30 access or dissemination of information, must also be
 
1 exercised publicly, but, and I stress this, importantly
2 under the 2005 Act, could only be exercised after the
3 evidence has been "given, provided or produced" to the
4 Inquiry.
5 At this preliminary stage I wish to emphasise that,
6 where a death has occurred in custody an Inquiry such as
7 this, must ensure, so far as possible, that the full facts
8 are brought to light and that in pursuing that objective
9 there is a responsibility and an onus on those State
10 agencies concerned to provide a satisfactory and convincing
11 explanation of how the death occurred.
12 I consider therefore, that the Inquiries Act 2005
13 provides the best means of ensuring both the thorough
14 investigation that this case demands and the fullest
15 possible public exposure of our work. That together, with
16 the requirements of Article 2 of the Convention of Human
17 Rights, should, I believe, enhance the confidence of all
18 that this Inquiry will not only be a full and open Public
19 Inquiry, but will also be and will seen to be fully
20 independent in its outlook and its approach.
21 I turn now to deal with the administration and
22 procedure: An Inquiry Office has been established in
23 Edinburgh and contact details have been provided. The
24 Inquiry also has a dedicated website where details of our
25 Terms of Reference, List of Issues and other relevant
26 information are provided. The website will be updated
27 regularly and will become the vehicle for publication of the
28 Inquiry proceedings in due course.
29 An office will be established in Belfast when the
30 Inquiry holds full public hearings.
 
1 I turn to deal with the progress of work: Members of
2 the Inquiry Team have been in place since before Easter and
3 work is continuing on a number of fronts. Clearly before
4 there can be a full public hearing on the issues raised
5 there will require to be a thorough investigation and
6 examination carried out by the Inquiry Team.
7 In many ways this is not a normal Inquiry. Its
8 starting point is the review by Judge Cory of the
9 documentation provided to him. Copies of some of that
10 documentation have been provided to us. Judge Cory however,
11 did not interview any witnesses, nor was he able to ask any
12 searching questions of individuals who may have had relevant
13 knowledge. The number of witnesses who have provided
14 statements to the other investigations I have mentioned
15 earlier, is limited.
16 In this Inquiry it will be necessary before the Inquiry
17 Team to seek to identify, assess, collate and ingather
18 documents and information which maybe relevant to the issues
19 that we are to inquire into. Equally, it will be necessary
20 for that team to identify, locate and interview relevant
21 witnesses. That will not be a task that can be carried out
22 in the short timescale. It is important therefore, that all
23 those interested in the Inquiry should co-operate to the
24 fullest extent possible.
25 As is indicated in the Protocols which have been
26 produced and are contained on the website, the evidence will
27 be presented to the Inquiry through Counsel to the Inquiry.
28 That means in practical terms, that should any interested
29 party, or any other person who has information which he or
30 she considers is pertinent to the issues we are to
 
1 investigate or who consider any particular individual should
2 be asked to give evidence to the Inquiry, they make that
3 fact known to the Inquiry Office. They should provide the
4 necessary information on documentation to that office in
5 order that the appropriate decisions can be taken as
6 expeditiously as possible.
7 So far as witnesses are concerned, some will have
8 already given evidence to the Coroner's Inquest or will have
9 provided statements of their recollections of the events of
10 27th December 1997 to investigating agencies. They may have
11 additional relevant evidence to offer. Others who do have
12 relevant and material evidence to give may not have been
13 interviewed at any stage. It is likely that some relevant
14 witnesses may not yet have been identified.
15 Over the next months, members of the legal team will
16 identify those witnesses who it is necessary to interview
17 and will arrange to see them. Information on that process
18 can be found in the Protocols.
19 It maybe that I will consider it necessary to hold a
20 further preliminary hearing nearer the commencement of
21 public hearings in order to update interested parties on
22 progress in respect of the investigation stage and to advise
23 on an anticipated timescale.
24 I wish, however, to make it clear, that this is a
25 Public Inquiry. Accordingly, it will be presumed that all
26 written material and statements provided to the Inquiry
27 maybe distributed to represented parties, referred to at the
28 Inquiry's public hearings and thereafter published on the
29 Inquiry's website. For reasons which I think are obvious,
30 these will never include private addresses, telephone
 
1 numbers, contact details or other information that might
2 identify where an individual resides. Such information will
3 be removed or redacted prior to any distribution to parties
4 or publication on the Inquiry's website and will not be
5 referred to in the hearing.
6 Evidence to be used in the Inquiry will be distributed
7 in electronic format on compact disc in accordance with the
8 procedure set out in the protocol on handling of documents
9 and evidence.
10 I now turn to deal with the public hearings: In
11 accordance with the principles underlying a Public Inquiry,
12 we will conduct our business in an open and transparent
13 manner, independent of any interested party and impartially.
14 At all times the Inquiry will act fairly to all parties
15 whether represented parties or persons appearing as
16 witnesses.
17 Apart from matters of undisputed facts, evidence will
18 be given orally wherever that is possible. Where evidence
19 is given orally it will be given under oath or affirmation.
20 It is intended that all important witnesses will be called
21 to give evidence at the public hearings although there may
22 well be circumstances in which it is necessary for the panel
23 to accept the introduction of the witness's evidence by
24 other means.
25 The purpose of this Inquiry is to look into the death
26 of Billy Wright within The Maze Prison and the process that
27 led to that event. We are required to consider whether there
28 was any wrongful act or omission on the part of Prison
29 Authorities or other state agencies. We approach that as
30 with completely open minds and do not assume the event is
 
1 surrounded by misconduct or, conversely, that it is not.
2 Although we will make factual findings based on the
3 evidence and may make recommendations to the Secretary of
4 State, we are not empowered to make any finding of legal
5 liability on the part of any individual or groups of
6 individuals.
7 The conduct and procedure of the Inquiry is a matter
8 for the Chairman. Whereas there are no formal rules, the
9 Inquiry will follow closely rules which would apply to civil
10 court proceedings. That will mean for example, that the
11 standard of proof which we apply is proof on the balance of
12 probabilities. If we were to receive evidence which could
13 support an inference of criminal conduct, the same standard
14 will apply but, in accordance with the law, evidence would
15 require to be of sufficient weight and cogency before such
16 an inference could be drawn.
17 All witnesses who give evidence before the Inquiry will
18 be called and led by Counsel to the Inquiry.
19 Any witness who maybe subject to questioning tending to
20 suggest that he or she may have acted wrongfully or who
21 maybe the subject of other criticisms, will be advised in
22 advance of giving evidence by the Inquiry Office of any such
23 allegations of criticisms made against him or her and that
24 the evidence in support of them, within a sufficient time
25 frame to allow him or her adequate opportunity to put his or
26 her case. Should any represented party intend to make any
27 such assertions in relation to a witness, they must give due
28 notice to Inquiry Counsel or the Inquiry Office so that the
29 matter may be properly considered. I would stress at this
30 early stage, that a failure to give such notice is likely to
 
1 result in questioning designed to criticise a witness being
2 restricted in the interest of fairness.
3 The Full Hearing will be held in public in Belfast, at
4 a venue yet to be determined. When that will happen depends
5 on how long it will take an Inquiry Team to investigate the
6 issues under consideration and amass, analyse and assess
7 that evidence. That, in turn, will depend upon how easily
8 and efficiently the Inquiry Office can collect all the
9 relevant documentary evidence and interview witnesses. To a
10 degree therefore, it depends upon the co-operation of all.
11 Although speed and economy are factors that I require
12 to have regard to, I do not consider that they should
13 outweigh the need for a thorough and effective investigation
14 to ensure a fair hearing for all concerned.
15 In any event, it is not anticipated that the public
16 hearing stage will commence before Spring 2006. It should
17 be borne in mind that it is possible that it may start
18 later. Details of the timings of the public hearings will
19 be advised in due course.
20 Finally, for the avoidance of doubt, although it is
21 intended to conduct wholly public hearings, I cannot rule
22 out at this stage the fact that there maybe a need to allow
23 some evidence to be heard in private or in camera or
24 anonymously, because of, for example, security reasons or
25 the vulnerability of witnesses. These matters are all dealt
26 with in the Protocols which can be accessed through the
27 website.
28 I turn now to deal with interested parties: We have
29 invited applications from individuals or representative
30 groups to take part in our deliberations as interested
 
1 parties. A number of applications seeking full
2 representation have been received.
3 After due consideration by the panel we have accepted
4 that - firstly Mr David Wright, the deceased's next of kin;
5 secondly, the Northern Ireland Prison Service; thirdly, the
6 Police Service of Northern Ireland, and fourthly, the Prison
7 Officers Association, each have a legitimate interest in the
8 subject matter of the Inquiry and are entitled to have those
9 interests fully represented throughout the Inquiry hearings.
10 Others who wish to make an application to be
11 represented at the Inquiry may do so today, setting out the
12 areas, within our remit, of particular concern to them and
13 the grounds on which they consider they are entitled to take
14 part in this Inquiry. The Panel will give due consideration
15 to such applications before a decision is taken. Should it
16 be decided that there are insufficient grounds to allow
17 representations reasons will be given to the applicant.
18 Anyone may, of course, attend the Inquiry as a member
19 of the public to observe and hear the evidence.
20 The granting of representation is entirely separate
21 from the question of funding. Should any party granted
22 representation consider that they should receive public
23 funding to enable them to take part in the Inquiry, I would
24 refer them to the appropriate section of the Protocols which
25 detail the basis on which funding will be provided and
26 procedure to be followed.
27 I turn now to other procedural matters: This is an
28 inquisitorial process. As I have mentioned, it is intended
29 that all important relevant evidence other than
30 non-contentious fact will be given orally under oath or
 
1 affirmation. What I do anticipate is that the bulk of the
2 questioning will be carried out by Counsel to the Inquiry.
3 Other interested parties who have been formally granted
4 representation will then be afforded the opportunity to ask
5 further questions on matters which affect their particular
6 interest, subject always to relevancy and to the Inquiry
7 Panel's discretion as to the utility and import of the line
8 taken.
9 Such questioning should always be reasonable and be
10 based on evidence that is before the Inquiry or is to be
11 placed before the Inquiry. On that basis, the parties can
12 be sure that they will take a practical and effective role
13 in the proceedings.
14 Transcription of the evidence will be by Livenote. It
15 will be made available in redacted form, if necessary, to
16 represented parties each day. The evidence will be placed
17 on the website daily unless of course it has been taken in
18 camera. Again the Protocols contain further information on
19 this matter.
20 At the conclusion of the evidence, Counsel to the
21 Inquiry will present submissions to the Inquiry Panel on the
22 evidence. I may thereafter invite represented parties to
23 submit concise written submissions on the issues which we
24 have to determine.
25 Once these have been received and considered, I will
26 decide, after consultation, whether it would benefit the
27 Inquiry to seek to supplement those written submissions for
28 short oral representations in support of particular matters.
29 I turn now to broadcasting. There are requirements
30 imposed upon me as Chairman, under the Inquiries Act 2005,
 
1 in respect of public access to proceedings and information.
2 Those requirements apply equally to members of the press. I
3 would however, take this opportunity to point out that in
4 terms of the Act, no recording or broadcasting of the
5 proceedings at the Inquiry may be made except at my request
6 or with my consent and in accordance with any terms in which
7 permission is given.
8 I will turn now to receive applications from persons
9 who seek to be represented at the Inquiry.
10 Having gone through that process, as I said right at
11 the outset I will turn to the questions that you may wish to
12 ask of the panel.
13 There are microphones for you to use. There are two.
14 Can I ask you to speak only when you have a microphone.
15 Otherwise the stenographer will be unable to record your
16 comments.
17 It would be helpful to me if you would begin by stating
18 your name and whom you represent.
19 It is open to anyone now, whoever it may be, who wishes
20 to have representation of the Inquiry, apart from those that
21 I have already mentioned.
22
23 MR EGAN: Michael Egan of Counsel, instructed by Diamond Heron
24 Solicitors, appearing on behalf of the POA.
25 LORD MACLEAN: But you have representation.
26 MR EGAN: I have in that regard and may I make this inquiry at
27 this point, whether that interested party status will also
28 extend to the individual officers, both former and present,
29 who are relevant to the issues the subject of this Inquiry?
30 LORD MACLEAN: I think the answer to that is yes, that is the
 
1 intention.
2 MR EGAN: I am obliged for that clarification.
3 LORD MACLEAN: As long of course, if they are prepared to be
4 represented by the Association, isn't that understood?
5 MR EGAN: Perfectly, thank you.
6
7 MR MORRISON: Leo Morrison, Morrison and Broderick Solicitors.
8 Acting on behalf of Messrs. McWilliams, Kennaway and
9 Glennon.
10 I received correspondence from the Inquiry yesterday
11 and I understand that before the Inquiry would make a
12 decision in respect of my three clients, they wish to take
13 statements from them.
14 LORD MACLEAN: Well we expect that if they are available they
15 will want to co-operate with the Inquiry.
16 MR MORRISON: And I think the decision in respect of
17 representation on behalf of the three of them is going to be
18 postponed until they have been interviewed.
19 LORD MACLEAN: You have received a letter from the Inquiry
20 Solicitor, haven't you?
21 MR MORRISON: I received a letter yesterday.
22 LORD MACLEAN: Do you want to say anything in addition to what
23 you have been told?
24 MR MORRISON: No.
25 LORD MACLEAN: Thank you. Perhaps since you are here just keep
26 the microphone a second. Perhaps I should ask you in
27 addition, have you been asked in the letter to explain how
28 your three clients may actually assist this Inquiry in terms
29 of its remit and I think the Inquiry will expect you to
30 respond fully to that before we can decide whether they
 
1 should have representation?
2 MR MORRISON: I will respond in due course Mr Chairman.
3
4
5 MR LYNCH: Mr Chairman, Peter Lynch, Reid, Black and Company
6 solicitors. I am here today to represent the interest of
7 the Governor on the day, Mr William McKee.
8 LORD MACLEAN: Yes.
9 MR LYNCH: Clearly Mr McKee is the central figure in all of this
10 Inquiry and the outcome of the Inquiry could have very
11 serious personal repercussions for him. I am sure the
12 Tribunal are aware from the statement given to Mr Cory, that
13 Mr McKee has lived under a death threat from Loyalist
14 paramilitaries over the last number of years. Clearly he
15 has grave reservations about how the evidence he presents to
16 the Tribunal will be viewed by not only those Loyalist
17 paramilitaries but by others.
18 It has been suggested that he might be properly
19 represented by the solicitor that is acting on behalf of his
20 employers, the Northern Ireland Prison Service. He would
21 say that there is a clear conflict of interest there, in
22 that I am presently conducting a civil claim on behalf of
23 Mr McKee against his previous employers. He is now
24 medically retired and the ground of that civil claim arises
25 out of the aftermath of the Billy Wright murder and how
26 Mr McKee feels he was dealt with and treated by his
27 employers in the months and years following the incident.
28 As a result, he would say that he cannot be fairly
29 represented by the solicitors acting on behalf of his
30 employers.
 
1 There has been some suggestion also that he could be
2 looked after by Diamond Heron who are the solicitors on
3 behalf of the Prison Officers Association. At the time of
4 the incident itself Mr McKee was not a member of that body
5 and therefore cannot clearly be represented by the
6 Association solicitors.
7 I would say Mr Chairman, there can be no more
8 compelling reason why this man should be granted separate
9 legal representation. His very life has been threatened, he
10 will be putting himself in the public domain for the first
11 time dealing with the issues surrounding this incident.
12 Unless I can help the Tribunal any further.
13 LORD MACLEAN: This is the first time you have made this
14 application, isn't it?
15 MR LYNCH: It is.
16 LORD MACLEAN: So it came to us just before we came on to the
17 platform.
18 MR LYNCH: I understand that, yes.
19 LORD MACLEAN: We would obviously want to consider it. I
20 wouldn't wish to give you any snap answer now.
21 MR LYNCH: Of course Mr Chairman. I would suggest that I would
22 help the tribunal in any way if they want a written
23 submission or any further submission, I would happily
24 oblige.
25 LORD MACLEAN: I think you have said enough for us to consider it
26 actually. The different position of Mr McKee had not been
27 previously considered and I think we know probably enough
28 from you today for us to consider that and we will respond
29 to that. You are from?
30 MR LYNCH: Reid Black and Company.
 
1 LORD MACLEAN: And address?
2 MR LYNCH: 59 Main Street, Ballyclare. That is County Antrim.
3 LORD MACLEAN: Thank you very much. We will be in touch with you
4 as soon as we possibly can.
5
6
7 LORD MACLEAN: There is one at the back.
8 MR ROBINSON: Andrew Robinson, O'Rourke, McDonald and Tweed,
9 acting for Raymond Hill, one of the prison officers. I have
10 already heard in relation to Mr Egan, who has already spoken
11 on behalf of the Prison Officers, I am on behalf of one who
12 didn't want to be represented by the Prison Officers
13 Association, and seek representation. He was the Tower
14 Guard at the time, who in the list in inverted commas "stood
15 down", and he would wish, he was an important part of what
16 happened that day and certain repercussions in relation to
17 him in relation to the allegations that have been made and
18 we seek separate representation.
19 LORD MACLEAN: That is Raymond Hill as an individual, the Tower
20 Guard at the material time.
21 MR ROBISON: That is correct.
22 LORD MACLEAN: Could I have your name and address?
23 MR ROBINSON: Andrew Robinson, O'Rourke, McDonald and Tweed. 29
24 The Roddens, in Larne.
25 LORD MACLEAN: This has come freshly to us.
26 MR ROBINSON: Yes, I appreciate that.
27 LORD MACLEAN: Could you Mr Robinson, put that in writing to the
28 Solicitor to the Inquiry and you have got the office
29 address, we will consider that and will come back to you.
30
 
1 LORD MACLEAN: Does that exhaust all those who want to apply for
2 separate representation? Right, okay. I turn now then to
3 the questions that you may wish to ask.
4
5 DR McCLINTON: Cornelius Kenneth McClinton, Doctor. Friend of the
6 late Billy Wright. Under the Inquiries Act of 2005, could you
7 clarify for me Sir, if the Government Ministers will have
8 some sort of veto in any way as to what disclosure is made,
9 reference documentation from the Secretary of State's
10 Office, in consideration with correspondence between myself
11 and Doctor Mo Mowlam which I think are very relevant to the
12 Inquiry?
13 LORD MACLEAN: That is quite a long time ago.
14 DR McCLINTON: Yes sir.
15 LORD MACLEAN: That is at the time when Mr Wright was murdered?
16 DR McCLINTON: Yes sir, Mr Wright was able to tell me four days
17 before he got killed that he was going to be killed and it
18 is very relevant.
19 LORD MACLEAN: The answer to your question is this, no they
20 won't, but if they do or any State agency claims public
21 interest immunity under the Act as distinct from the
22 previous procedure, they have to produce to us the document
23 which we will then see, whereas before we would not have
24 seen and then we will have to justify their stance before a
25 Court.
26 The answer is that they always have had that
27 opportunity, but they will have to justify their position
28 before a Court and we will have the documentation.
29 DR McCLINTON: It is just so in an equal and just society we
30 could expect that but we don't live in an equal and just
 
1 society here. My home was searched by the security forces
2 and documents went missing from my home which are relevant
3 to this Inquiry.
4 LORD MACLEAN: This is something, the sort of thing we have to
5 investigate as an Inquiry and that is the stage we are at.
6 DR McCLINTON: Thank you very much.
7 LORD MACLEAN: Does that answer your question?
8 DR McCLINTON: Not really, but I will just have to wait and see
9 what happens, if there is immunity, if there is full
10 disclosure without any interference by the Government I will
11 be very happy.
12 LORD MACLEAN: You may be sure if there is any difficulty put in
13 our way at the investigating stage I will take the ultimate
14 step which is of course reporting to the Minister.
15 DR McCLINTON: That is assuring Sir, thank you.
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17 LORD MACLEAN: Any other questions? Well that concludes this
18 first preliminary hearing. I did allude in what I said to
19 the need perhaps to have a second preliminary hearing of
20 this kind to report on our progress and that maybe necessary
21 in due course. Thank you all for attending.
22 HEARING ADJOURNED
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